Got Juice?

People are so wrapped up in this Ster-Rod controversy, they’ve been blinded to the fact that pitchers and catchers report this weekend and our brief Spring Training is just about to start.  Alex Rodriguez took steroids, big surprise! I don’t know what planet people are living on, but you have to wonder how people really believe that all their “heroes” reached astronomical numbers without a supplement of some sort.

I shouldn't have eaten those bull testicles

The myth that Babe Ruth’s PEDs were beer and hot dogs is just that…  a myth. Stimulants & hormones were prevalent way back in the 30’s, just
as the use of strychnine died down
. That whole generation of ball players, shattered records like Mo Vaughn shatters a plate of ribs and they all paid the price with massive health issues, early cancers and quick exits from this world. Going
back further, Greek wrestlers and Roman gladiators tried to improve their physical strength by eating sheep’s testicles.

Damn Hippies!

 On MLB Home Plate this morning, they did great job breaking down Roger Maris’ jump in stats from 1960- 1961. In fact, look at the league leaders in 1961 in all offensive categories (AL) (NL)and it looks a little like the 2000’s. Were hormones and amphetamines not available back then? Why have so many of these world class athletes died so young?

Why are so many players from the 1980 word series dead from brain tumors? Wasn’t Tug’s arm done when he was traded to the Phillies in 1974? Why was Nolan Ryan throwing 99 in his mid 40’s when Tom Seaver couldn’t get out Barry Lyons when he was 40?

Gee I wonder?? …  if it walks like a duck and you hear it quacking, it’s probably Donald.

Face it people, most athletes are and were doping. Always and forever. What does a clean test even mean today with HGH? A clean test just means they weren’t dumb enough to do a drug they test for. So why exactly should I be all that worked up about Arod doing what most athletes do? 

God, lets’ just calm down, get past this WBC nonsense and start the season already.

 

Posted By Nik Kolidas

18 responses to “Got Juice?

  1. Pingback: MetsBlog.com » Links: Defending Citi, Math, Questions and Hate·

  2. What is so outstanding???? All he did was post speculation after speculation after speculation. Do you have any proof what so ever? Look if you can prove to me that Babe ruth and later Hank Aaron were taking some kind of performance enhancer, then fine – you win. But this argument that “everyone is doing it” just doesn’t hold water. The truth is that even with all the testing being done, there are still less players that test positive than there are those who do.

  3. I never indicated Hank Aaron, but other cases are well documented. Several athletes have publicly admitted taking amphetamines through the years and all sorts of PEDs in the 80’s. I read Tug McGraw’s book where he’s not shy about what he’s done. Dan Quisenberry also wasn’t shy. I’ve read how in was considered “letting your teammates down” if you weren’t on a stimulant. This is not me making things up, but rather documented fact.

    There’s a LOT of data on athletes from the 30’s and beyond taking rudimentary supplements, if not from The Babe himself. I acknowledged I was speculating about Ruth and using the jump in stats throughout the league to show a possible trend. That being the case, it’s hard to believe that MLB was avoiding a trend that was prevalent across pro spots back then. Do you think gambling was the only transgression going on?

    Also.. as far as “less players testing positive”… there isn’t’ a test for HGH. If you were an athlete today, why would you take steroids when there is a better solution that’s un-testable? A cheater will always cheat.. he just cheats better if he’s smart.

  4. “That whole generation of ball players, shattered records like Mo Vaughn shatters a plate of ribs and they all paid the price with massive health issues, early cancers and quick exits from this world.”

    The problem with this statement is its not true. The average life expectancy for someone born in 1900 was 49 years old, that’s not ball players, that’s everyone (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_09.pdf). A quick and clearly not exhaustive look at the leaderboards for 192 show Harry Heilman, Al Simmons, Ken Williams, Cy Williams, Rogers Hornsby, Ty Cobb, George Sisler even Babe Ruth himself exceeding this 49 year lifespan. Bill Terry a 20 HR hitter in 1927 lived till he was 91! For comparison’s sake Lou Gehrig, Tony Lazzeri and Hack Wilson all came up a little short of the magic 49.

    Now, while 49 may sound like a very young age, these players lifespans were not cut short due to any performance enhancing drugs.

  5. Lifestyle had a lot to do with the short life spans back then and a lot of these supplements were in their infancy stage and extremely dangerous at that point. That being said, most of the power hitting record breakers back then did die relatively young (especially for world class athletes).

    The phrase you quoted had to do with records being shattered out of nowhere and that is a true statement. I’ll do more research to back up my claim further per the heath of those players, but considering medical care was so bad back then, it’s hard to prove anything in that regard without a shadow of a doubt.

  6. Ultimately all we can go by is speculation based on circumstantial evidence and statements from random players regarding what’s happening in an industry at any given time. That being said, eyes and mind make a pretty good judge when the people aren’t around to discuss it.

    I’m not a jury, I’m just a baseball fan who has done a lot of reading and this is my opinion. I respect where you’re coming from, but I also see no reason to protect these older players out of respect. I see and appreciate their work, but I can’t turn a blind eye to the possibilities, forgive the bouncing balls out of George Brett and Sammy Sosa’s bats and at the same time throw stones at Arod.

  7. I have to agree whole-heartedly with Ed Q’s post. All Kolidas did was post pure speculation without a shred of evidence, save “it’s a duck!”. Please. Were players on stimulants as far back as the 40’s and 50’s? Maybe. But they were also drunks. Mickey Mantle drank himself out of 600 HRs and Jimmy Foxx drank himself out of baseball. Neither died before the age of 49. Also, there’s no scientific study linking amphetimine use to brain cancer. Should we say Dick Howser used PEDs to help him manage? If you want to look at the spike in numbers throughout baseball history, you can see definitive causes – the live ball era of the 20’s. The ‘juiced’ ball of the early 30’s – the ball was wound tighter to enable it to travel farther because owners felt fans “loved homeruns so much.” In 1967 Bob Gibson was 31 and was 13-7 with a 2.72 ERA. In 1968, Bob went 22-9 with a 1.12 era. Well if it looks like a duck, it’s got to be steroids. So Gibson was on the juice like Clemens right? Of course not! They raised the mound from 67 to 68 and gibson dominated. At the age of 32, when he should have been declining. Look this entire blog is so rife with utter nonsense, i’ll never read him again. But I wanted to leave a little comment before doing so.

  8. Bouncing balls never came from George Bretts bat or any other bat. Brett had pine tar on his bat. Big difference. The ‘bouncing ball’ story was Nettles, and it wasn’t bouncing balls, it was cork.

    but again you are SPOT ON with your commentary.

  9. God, I just can’t stay away. You’re post was so annoyingly bad. You make a big deal of Roger Maris’ numbers and the league-wide numbers jumping in ’61, but then FAIL to report that in 1961 TWO expansion teams were added to the american league. That’s right, it went from an 8 team league to a 10 team league with the addition of the Washington Senators and the Los Angeles Angels. There were 10 AL teams and 8 NL team and the league numbers in the NL stayed remarkably similar to it’s 1960 numbers. Oh, and FYI, the 1960 Senators moved to Minnesota and became the Twins for the ’61 season. The ’61 Senators were an expansion team. They eventually became the Rangers in 72. Combined records of these two teams? 131-191. Throw in the 61-100 KC A’s and you have a recipe for inflated stats.

    And for the record, other than the jump from the dead ball era to the live ball era, baseball has NEVER seen a jump in offensive stats and records like it has in the 98-08 ‘steroid era.’ My god, Sammy Sosa hit over 60 HR THREE TIMES. McGwire twice. Bonds hit 73. Maris and Ruth only did it 1x each – that’s two players over a span of SEVENTY EIGHT years, vs. 3 players doing it 6 times in like seven years. God. Please rescue me from people like you and those who make inane comments like “Never realized all that. Well done Nik.” Yeah, I can tell you Gabby Flenderson hit 84 HR for the Montreal Maroons in 1944 to set the AL record and you can also say “Wow, never realized that!” Why? Because it’s not true! like most of this blog!

  10. Matt.. “the ball was wound tighter to enable it to travel farther because owners felt fans “loved homeruns so much” is there documented evidence of this or is this also speculation based on things you’ve read in the past?

    I never said amphetamines cause brain cancer, but hormones and other things players have been known to take do cause cancers. Amphetamines is just standard cheating. I have read about specific details in the past and will try to come up with some of the original articles I’ve read through the years to support my theory.

    Again, remember the word theory. It’s a given that I wasn’t a ballplayer in the 30’s so all we can do is speculate and look at writings from the time period.

    Also, you’re right… I was thinking of Brett, but was in fact Nettles.

  11. to cite my quote about the owners knowing fans loved the homerun you can check out the following books: Low and Outside and The Sluggers, two volumes in the World of Baseball series (Redefinition, 1989-90); The Ultimate Baseball Book (Houghton Mifflin, 1991); and The Politics of Glory by Bill James (Macmillan, 1994).

    It’s common knowledge to any true baseball historical fan. In 1930 the National league hit .303 – as a LEAGUE. It was the year of Hack Wilson’s 190 RBI and Gehrig’s 184. I won’t bore you with a litany of numbers, but I could. The stats are insane in 1930. Thanks to a ‘juiced ball.’ This isn’t theory, it’s fact. The owners wanted an increase in excitement due to spark interest in the depression era fans.

    what I object to most of all is you besmirching generations of hall of famers and conveniently calling it ‘theory’. I find it appalling. If you are indeed a jouralist, you should be ashamed. Blogs are not operated in vaccuums. You are putting your writings out there subject to review by countless hordes of people and your ‘theories’ have influence beyond your own group of buddies. What you wrote wasn’t a theory, it was a spite-filled rant done for no other purpose that perhaps to be controversial? Worst of all you provided no facts to support your “theory.” Even the most primitive ‘theories’ have some basis in fact to support some of the reasoning.

  12. Matt – relax, you are ranting in a way that you seem to detest. A theory is born from intellectual curiosity. Based on that intellectual curiosity, you seek to provide empirical tests of your “interelated propositions”. Theories are also works in progress, so the empirical “facts” usually come after the theory is posited.

    That being said, enjoy the blog.

  13. Hey there Matt!

    First of all, thanks for reading the blog and caring enough to share your opinion. You must be a bit confused as per the nature of blogs, but it’s not journalism per say, but rather straight opinion. Occasionally, we might “cover a story” or simulate what you might see in a newspaper, but for the most part. It’s just opinionated people sharing their thoughts.

    In regards to your request for facts… I’d like to give you some literature regarding performance enhancers in baseball based on facts. I happen to agree with you about the juiced ball, but I’m agreeing with you based on stuff I’ve read from 3rd parties… just like you.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5314753 As far back as 1889 an early 300 game winner, Jim “Pud” Galvin, used a solution drained from the gonads of goats (testosterone) and was praised by the Washington Post for being creative.

    What your asking me to believe is that in between the turn of the century player and the 70’s players who constantly talk about dug use… the gambling, drinking, violent (in the case of Cobb) womanizers of early baseball suddenly became chior boys when it came to PEDs?

    Our own Ralph Kiner admitted to taking greenies http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2006/04/02/PBP_AMPHET_0402.html “All the trainers in all the ballparks had them,” Kiner said. “You needed to perform your best and you were going to use everything that’s legal to help you do it. You worked to get that job and you wanted to stay in the lineup. If you got out of the lineup, you might never get back in.”

    Jim Bouton’s also discussed players taking greenies in “Ball Four”

    Mike Schmidt wrote “”In my day,” he says, they “were widely available in major-league clubhouses.” In his book “”Clearing the Bases,””

    Under oath, Lord Bud admitted that he had known about amphetamines for 36 years, ever since he took a baseball team to Milwaukee in 1970

    From the 1980 World Series, John Vukovich, Ken Brett, Dan Quisenberry, and Tug McGraw all died of the same exact cancer. Dick Howser did too, so who knows where the link is. McGraw has stated he took all sorts of drugs… this is a fact. He’s also one of my all time favorite players, so this is not something I’m throwing out there.

    I’m also not accusing anyone, but rather stating a few facts and rasing some questions. My overall comment is athelets have and always will do what they can to get an edge. To harshly judge someone now for acting in a nature that’s human is not being consistant. Trust me… I hate the Yankees and would love to jump on it. I just can’t…

  14. also… I heard a defense similar to yours from Yankee fans for years about Clemens when I used to say he was probably juiced based on his odd performance at an old age, his build, his aggression and sudden swing in stats back to peek performance. Now… oh my goodness gracious… he’s probably going to prison.

    Again… sometimes when you don’t have hard evidence… you use your personal judgment and as Gene said.. question things.

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